An Interview between Dr. Kate Freiman-Fox and Stephanie Rogers, MPA.
Kate: This month I’m so pleased to speak with Stephanie Rogers. Stephanie is a sociologist with expertise in personality theory. She has worked with some of the great theorists in the field of type and temperament. We had a chance to speak and I was blown away with the breadth and depth of her knowledge, so I’m so pleased she is willing to explain this for my audience this month.
Kate: Stephanie, please start by letting us know what you do.
Stephanie: For the past thirty years, I have used the frameworks of personality type and temperament to help clients understand themselves better, so they can be most effective in social settings. I use type and temperament to help clients understand inherent personality differences and create better relationships with others.
Kate: I know you are an expert at working with the MBTI® (Myers-Briggs Type Indicator®) and The Keirsey-Bates Temperament Sorter. The Keirsey-Bates is one of the personality tools used by Authentic Connections to get to know our clients better. Can you explain what the MBTI is and how it relates to Jung and Keirsey’s ideas about type and temperament?
Stephanie: The Myers-Briggs Type Indicator is a psychological instrument. It was created by a mother-daughter team (Katharine Briggs and Isabel Myers) in the 1940s-70s, to make Carl Jung’s psychological types accessible to the lay person. The instrument is widely used around the world in business, military, and counseling settings. MBTI scores are represented by a four-letter code, with one letter taken from each of the four preference pairs (Extraversion/Introversion, Sensing/iNtuition, Thinking/Feeling, Judging/Perceiving), i.e. ENFJ. Each of these terms comes with rich content, and great depth of knowledge. The letters/names are just the beginning.
Kate: Please explain personality type and temperament for our readers.
Stephanie: Gladly, Kate. Psychological Type was developed by the famous Swiss psychologist, Carl Jung, in the 1920s. He was particularly interested in how people focus on their internal world or the external world, and their processes for perceiving information and making decisions. He identified eight “function-attitude” types, each having two versions of expression (for a total of sixteen). This was just one theory among a large body of his work that dealt with developing the unconscious.
Temperament was developed by David Keirsey, an American psychologist, in the 1970s. He identified “core psychic needs” of people to support good mental health. He recognized these four temperament patterns as ones that had been commonly recognized by great thinkers for centuries. He developed these four temperament patterns in a modern context for the lay person to sustain positive mental health and achieve their greatest happiness. The four temperaments are Guardian, Rational, Artisan, and Idealist.
Kate: Did Jung and Keirsey believe that we are born with our type and temperament already established or do they develop through life experience once we “arrive?”
Your type stays the same throughout life, but there is a predictable pattern of development for each type that alters the expression of the type at different stages of life. Similar to human maturity, there is type maturity. You are always you, but you are not now as you were when you were two, but you are not entirely someone else either.
Kate: Does a person need to take the MBTI to use type and temperament?
Stephanie: No, individuals can usually identify themselves by reading the various descriptions, but what can be very helpful is having a knowledgeable practitioner interpret your four-letter type code or your temperament core needs. There are numerous online sources these days, some better than others, but nothing compares to having one-on-one coaching with someone who has expert knowledge of type and temperament.
Kate: How can type and temperament help folks find a romantic relationship?
Stephanie: There are many ways, but I’ll lay out a few here:
1) Language – it gives us all a language to help us describe ourselves, our core values, and the qualities we find most important in life. We often take these things for granted, so we are not mindful of how we express them to other people. Then we are disappointed when people we care about don’t seem to understand the most basic things about us. Type and temperament give us a language to describe those qualities. Knowing that others share those qualities with us validates and reinforces those qualities in ourselves. Knowing we are different from others helps us to temper the expression of our type to help us get along better with others. It helps give us the confidence to be who we really are.
2) Valuing Similarities and Differences – it gives us a framework for understanding personality similarities and differences. When we share some common characteristics with others, we sometimes have an expectation that we are alike in many ways – even if it isn’t true. Likewise, we may be attracted to someone that is very different, but then we expect them to behave or respond just like we do. Type and temperament reminds us that we each come with a package of qualities that is easily identifiable and equally valuable. It gives us the knowledge to appreciate others for who they are instead of trying to change them.
3) Acceptance and Perspective – in relationships, it gives us the ability to glimpse another perspective. We have a window into another way of being in the world. Instead of writing people off, understanding the different types and temperaments allows us to get to know others from their perspective. And we have the tools to share our own perspectives. Sharing perspectives is a critical part of building human relationships. Type and temperament give us a guide to understanding other perspectives as we build relationships.
Kate: Is there a best type or temperament match for a loving relationship?
Stephanie: Yes. The best one for you! But seriously, there is no magic formula to determine which type or temperament combinations will be successful. While there are general patterns with each type and temperament, the unique life of each individual influences personal desire in a love relationship. Individual experiences influence our preferences for or against other types/temperaments. But the advantage of knowing type and temperament is invaluable because it provides a framework and language for discussing similarities and differences that can offer a short-cut to identifying a workable match. It also serves as a life-time tool for navigating the inevitable conflicts in any relationship.
Kate: In choosing a mate, does it make sense to search for someone who has the same type/temperament?
Stephanie: That can be successful, but it might also be a little bit boring. Type theory includes a clear path of development. The psyche wants to learn all the qualities that linger in our unconscious, and the universe seems to create opportunities for that development to occur at each person’s own pace. Even if a couple shares the same type, there is no guarantee their development process will be the same. With any combination there are challenges to face, but facing them with type knowledge is always better than without.
Kate: Are opposite types attracted to each other?
Stephanie: Yes, but that does not mean that it is always the best match. These relationships begin with a lot of intrigue, but they take great care if they are to last for the long-term. One pitfall is that often one person in the pair begins to assert their personality over the other, and the relationship lacks equity. This can happen in any pairing, but it seems common among opposite type pairs. If this pitfall can be avoided, opposites can provide a lifetime of energized development, each encouraging the type development of the other.
Kate: Are there impossible type combinations?
Stephanie: No, there have been life-long successful relationships of every type combination. The key to successful relationships is always about truly valuing your partner, and being truly valued by your partner. Type and temperament can help you to know how to ask for what you need to feel valued, and how to identify and confirm what you can do to truly value your partner.
Kate: What is the most loving type?
Stephanie: Well, that is different for everyone. What would be experienced as “loving” to one type could be “really annoying” to another type. The key is knowing what is “loving” to your partner, and offering that to them, even if it is totally different than the way you want/need to be loved. And you should never settle for less for yourself. In type, we aspire to the Platinum Rule rather than the Golden Rule. The Golden Rule states, “Do unto others as you would have done unto you.” The Platinum Rule states, “Do unto others as they would have done unto them.” It is a true act of respect, and everyone deserves to be loved respectfully.
Kate: In your practice, how have you seen the awareness of type and temperament help someone looking for an authentic relationship?
Stephanie: So glad you asked. I love talking about success stories! There are two people that come to mind. Let’s start with “Sherry.”
Sherry had several good relationships that always seem to fail just at the proposal stage. In her mind, she had an idea of the perfect dates that would lead to the perfect relationship. She was very attracted to men that wanted to share great adventures and romantic moments because they created picture-perfect dates. She had a hectic work schedule and close friends and family that also required her attention. The men she dated worked around her busy schedule and found it easy to always create great dates during the time they shared. This worked especially well for the men who were also busy and had several interests they could pursue when Sherry was not available. With each relationship, as time and intimacy grew, Sherry began to think about marriage and the kind of family life she wanted. Her image of married life was very different than her image of dating life, and as she would communicate her desires, the men would seem to retreat. Her image of married life called for a complete shift to a co-existence that allowed little room for individual pursuits. Sherry’s type tends to want real life to match their idealized life, but the men she dated fit her perfect ideal for dating, but not her perfect ideal for marriage. The type of men Sherry dated were adventurous and independent and they thought they found a perfect match in Sherry because she seemed to want the same adventure and independence, until she suddenly wanted something very different. Sherry was frustrated with all the men that seemed to let her down, so she sought some advice about type and temperament in hopes of finding a type that would suit her better. She was quickly able to identify her own type and she could easily identify the temperament pattern of the men she had dated. With some discussion of her various relationships, and how each had dissolved, she began to see that the men were consistently behaving as their type would predict, and it was her behavior that revealed inconsistency. She admitted that even though the ideal date and ideal mate images didn’t seem contradictory to her, it was apparent why the men had felt she had been pretending to be something she wasn’t. Once Sherry was able to see herself through her partner’s eyes (using type and temperament), she was able to offer a more authentic description of the partnership she was seeking. She didn’t change the type of man she was looking for, but she did communicate early in her relationship about the image she had of building a closer bond that would lead to greater interdependence that included marriage and family, along with some great adventures. She found a man that was willing to build a more interconnected life than he had originally imagined possible for himself. They have three kids and many adventures.
“David” had a disappointing divorce after just two years of marriage, but he was ready to find someone to build a life with and have children. He wanted to get it right this time so he sought advice on finding the right type to pursue. When he described what he was looking for he said he wanted someone that was flexible, caring, and didn’t have to have everything perfect all the time. When asked, he explained that his ex-wife had all of those qualities but she just wasn’t very mature. Further discussion revealed that his mother had been very overbearing, and he resented the control she inflicted on him. He was able to identify his own type by identifying with the qualities of structure, stability, and responsibility. He gave examples of working for the same company since graduation and saving enough money for the down payment of a new house. He said he was easily attracted to women that flirted with him but was then disappointed when they didn’t seem serious. He complained that a few of the women he dated seemed flaky or too interested in how much money he had. He finally revealed that he always picked women that seemed to be the opposite of his mom. But when he was asked to describe the qualities he would want in a wife he said reliable, neat, friendly, liked her job, family oriented, and conscientious. Even David realized he was describing someone like himself. Then he realized that was not the type of person he had been dating at all. With more discussion about type and temperament he concluded that he and his mom were the same type, and probably more alike than he cared to admit. He also realized there were some things about his mom that he really respected like her organization and dependability, and the fact that he always knew he could count on her to be in his corner; qualities he hoped his own children would have in a mom. By trying to escape the over-bearing quality of his mother, he had disregarded other qualities that he really wanted in a partner. His ex-wife and the women he dated did not meet his expectations of a reliable, more traditional partner. David was able to better understand his own personality, appreciate similar qualities in the women he met, and not attribute the negative experience of his mother to them. Most importantly, he saw within himself the potential to become an over-bearing father to his own children, and he takes care to prevent that with the sons he shares with his very conscientious and dependable wife, Dara.
Kate: Thanks so much for those great examples! What can our readers do to learn more about type and temperament?
Stephanie: A good first step is to learn more about your own type and temperament. It can be very affirming to learn that there are other people like you that approach the world in the same way you do, and care about similar things. It helps to find language that you can use to communicate to others what is important and meaningful to you. Once you understand more about yourself through the lens of type and temperament, curiosity usually takes people to the next step of learning about others. You don’t need to become an expert for the knowledge of type and temperament to be useful. Just having a new appreciation for all the different ways people approach the world is an asset in building relationships. People often seek expertise in trying to manage an interpersonal conflict, or to resolve the wound of an old relationship. This can really help people increase their knowledge by exploring the concepts through a personal experience. Some people are at just the right moment of readiness for what type and temperament have to offer and they can’t get enough, for others it is a long process of discovery. There is no one right way to learn about type and temperament. However, there is one important rule, the knowledge should never, ever, be used to tell someone else who they are, who they should be, or how they are right or wrong. That goes for both practitioners and newbies.
Kate: Is there a book you’d recommend for someone wanting to learn about temperament and types?
Stephanie: Yes! Please Understand Me: Character & Temperament Types, by David Keirsey and Marilyn Bates.
Kate: Thanks for sharing from your vast knowledge of type and temperament, Stephanie. It is clear that being aware and understanding these personal preferences and differences can really help those who are wanting to get into a romantic relationship, those in long-standing relationships and really anyone relating to anyone else in any way. Powerful! Thank you!
You can reach Stephanie at stephanie@purposepoints.com or at her website at: www.purposepoints.com.
